explained that the requirements for such cases were put into place by policy. Mr. Howe asked if the policy was in compliance with statute. Mr. Monson said he would look into the matter and would have an answer at a later time.

    Mr. Monson introduced the Home Base Services offered to families and presented a short overview of the review findings in this area. He concluded his presentation by saying that DCFS is making progress but acknowledged that there are still improvements to be made. He proposed some changes in the monitoring process including a reduction of the 300 items of study to about 85 items, and the preparation of a qualitative assessment and trend analysis.

3.    Child Abuse Database Amendments _

    a.    Public Hearing

        Mr. Michael McCoy, General Counsel for the Utah Education Association, commented that names seem to be added too easily to the database. He expressed concern that individuals within the State Office of Education are accessing the information and such access could destroy a lot of people's careers.

        Mr. Steven C. Clark, American Civil Liberties Union, observed that people who are on the database and whose jobs and livelihoods are potentially effected by it, have a constitutionally protected liberty interest. He cited a current provision in the statute that allows an administrative hearing officer to base a finding to uphold a substantiation based solely on the statement of a child. Mr. Clark continued by citing some consideration to broadening or lessening the evidentiary standards, even to allow here say to support a finding of substantiation. He concluded by saying that in the ACLU's view these things would create more legal problems rather than recognize the liberty interest of the individuals involved.

        Ms. Martha Matthews, Staff Attorney at the National Center for Youth Law in San Francisco, CA, and one of the Plaintiff's Council in the David C. vs. Leavitt Case, cited a letter submitted by her coworker, Pat McElroy. She said that NCYL is concerned that the SAFE database should not be purged of unsubstantiated reports. Ms. Matthews explained that while unsubstantiated reports should not be used for licensing purposes and should not be accessible to licensing agencies, the information contained in the database is very useful internally in evaluating CPS performance.

        Ms. Matthews also discussed NCYL's position that all categories of substantiated cases should be considered in making licensing decisions. She suggested that the concern about accuracy of substantiated cases should be addressed by insuring greater accuracy of the CPS

investigations.

        Ms. Carol Verdoia, Attorney General's Office, conveyed Attorney General Jan Graham's concern over some of the directions this whole issue is taking and indicated that the Attorney General's office supports the Child Abuse and Neglect Advisory Counsel's (CAN) recommendations. In addition, Ms. Verdoia said that the Attorney General's Office strongly supports Mr. Parrish's memos, which she indicated had been submitted to the committee.

        Mr. Rob Parrish, Attorney General's Office, said that they are very concerned about limiting the access of information contained within the SAFE database to CPS workers in future investigations and to Law Enforcement. He explained that sometimes there are a number of unsubstantiated findings in a file which are later revealed to be valid accusations of abuse. He said that expungement should only be used in circumstances where there is affirmative evidence found during the investigation that the abuse did not occur.

        Mr. Parrish discussed briefly the issue of whether corroboration of a child's statement to substantiate or uphold a finding in an administrative law proceeding should be required. He explained the details of the Stephen Ceci study, which seem to indicate that children can be taught to remember events that in fact did not happen to them. Mr. Parrish argued that a similar study relating to physical abuse would be unethical and difficult to design. If abuse has occurred in the life a child it will be a different type of memory and we can learn the validity of that through adequate investigation.

        Ms. Kristin Brewer, Chair of the Children's Justice Advisory Board, Director of the Office of the Guardian Ad Litem, stated that CAN opposes dropping substantiations in any category for use by licensing and opposes dropping any of the data for access by SAFE. She said that her involvement with child fatality reviews has shown that although in many instances the agency was not found responsible for the death of a child, review of the CPS history indicates a series of unsubstantiated referrals prior to a death. She said the hope is that during the course of a current investigation, a CPS worker will recognize a potential problem and intervene to protect the child.


        Ms. Susan McNutly, Salt Lake County Commission on Youth, said the Commission supports the CAN Council's recommendations, as presented in writing to the committee. She said the commission is specifically concerned with the inclusion in statute of issues such as simple neglect, domestic violence and emotional maltreatment in the interest of protecting the children in Salt Lake County.

        Ms. Linda Braithwaite, is a recipient of a database notification letter, said she advocates what Protective Services does to help the children, but expressed discontent with the lack of support offered to parents. Ms. Braithwaite talked about a CPS worker who had offered assistance, but when a need arose, refused to do anything. She said there were no visits by CPS other than a meeting prior to a court hearing. Ms. Braithwaite asked if CPS workers aren't guilty of abuse or neglect if they fail to adequately investigate.

        Ms. Suzanne Allen said she had recently been through the hearing process. She expressed dissatisfaction with DCFS with regard to timeliness and availability of paperwork. She also said she was never given the opportunity of an interview prior to having her name entered into the database as a substantiated perpetrator of domestic violence. Ms. Allen appeared with her daughter, Amber Allen.

        Mr. John McFarland, Foster Care Citizen Review Board, commented on a letter submitted by Ms. Patricia Worthington, Director of the Foster Care Citizen Review Board. Mr. McFarland explained that the Foster Care Citizen Review Board is an independent State Agency which facilitates the review of foster care cases statewide. He said that it would be inappropriate for their volunteers to be substantiated child abusers. Mr. McFarland said they would not like to have anything preclude them from checking volunteer applicants against the database. He said they currently have access to the SAFE database.

4.    Other Business _

    a.    Next Meeting Date November 6, 1998.

5.    Adjournment

     MOTION: Rep. Barth moved to adjourn the meeting at 11:00 a.m. The motion passed unanimously.